This is some of the important points for and against ayurveda, that I received when I happened to put a post on "foot drop being cured" in a post called "janakeeya doctor", even though the criticisms were ruthless on me, I invite more of such criticisms, so that I can break free from the clutches of the tridosas and all those theologies, while I stay firm as an Ayurvedic physician ! The persons actively interacted were Satheesh kumar, Krishnadas pathiyil, Sreekanth M Radhakrishnan, Pankaj nabhan, Viswanathan pola, Kuruvila ebraham and so to say ! Thanks for all your comments that it turned out to be a knowledge treasure for all to read and think and ponder !
AGAINST AYURVEDA-
-This(the post on foot drop) is the first step in conducting a scientific research, that is preparing such Case reports. More of such case reports will make a case series. Only after going through a process called cross-sectional study, case control study, cohort study, it will be scientifically approved fact.
Even though such case reports are laudable it is better to go to "apothecary"hospitals which are much forward in terms of research when compared to ayurveda.
-I am humiliating your science, but, I only say that patient come to ayurveda just only as a part of a conceptual nostalgia, as a religious ritual.Your posts on foot drop will make more patients to undergo such "sacrifices". Inorder to prevent that only I explained about how a scientific data is approved. Studies don't make any facts scientific.
May be ayurveda might have been the best among the medicinal systems at that time. But using it even after 2000 years is causing hindrance in making modern scientific parameters to be reasearched to commom people. Your studies will only cause such hindrances in the scientific aptitude of common people.
-These tridosa theories are made by your acharyas sitting in a room. Even I can make out theories saying cola cures cancer, gooseberry give long life etc. If I get some idiots as disciples to follow and spread my ideas then life is easy.
-Keeping a secrecy in all matters and saying a particular quality in that acharya,other than that nothing has been ever heard about these people having transferred the knowledge to the other generations in the nearest past, that is truth and reality.
-On courses being conducted by government and about oushadi the govt run manufucaturing unit, the criticism was thus, "If whatever the govt does was right then the biggest tight would have been the gutters in the kerala highways, then next would be brandy", looks like he is not so pleased with the government !
-On asking wether he knows ayurveda, he invited opinions from other ayurvedic doctors who also followed the same "pallavi'' ! Infact I assume these ayurvedic doctors have seldom studied or ever practised or in a better sense tried to apply tridosic principles !
-A crticisism by an ayurvedic doctor with 20 yrs experience "It may be truth that WHO has approved traditional medicines and does not want for research, but it has not banned any further researches in this feild. Tridosas and panchabhootas are ancient theories and should be replaced by modern ones. Ayurveda must be changed to evidence based medicine and toxicology studies conducted wether mercury and such metals can be used ? WHO has approved traditional and indigenous medicines in third world countries on a humanitarian basis where primary health care services are unreachable. Registration are being given to such doctors ''barefoot doctors'', "vaidyas", inorder to prevent exploitation of the society by frauds and quacks.
-Not only in European countries, but also here in India people after completing M.Pharm do take ayurveda seriously and after doing chromatogarphy studies, extract its active contents, and make it into modern medicines. One such discovery is upon Sarpagandha used in ayurveda as a tranquiliser for insanity, where a chemical named reserpine was found out which was more useful in reducing blood pressure than former, such is the case with all drugs ! So then what is the use of all such herbal combinations ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/reserpine
-On modernisation n of ayurveda a critic wrote, " a complete change over is needed is what I feel after 20 years of practise. I think it is a human rights violation to use a 2000 year old medicine upon a patient, when knowledges have been updated regarding the disease of that patient. So why should I use tridosas and pancha bhootas. When patients become aware of the human rights violation then situation will begin to change, for example in Australia an indian parent were detained for allegedly being responsible for the death of their child due to renal failure(acute) after taking homeopathic medications ! Ayurveda I think must be a resource for scientific research works and projects. Making Ayurveda a sort of brand, a commodity, a religion is not the correct way to represent a science. It must lose its individuality and merge with modern science.
"there is a huge ethical issue when someone tries a hearsay medicine on a patient when proven therapies are there in conventional medicine."
-Another critic said ayurveda to be a quackery, he even sited a blog by steven salzberg, I have heard of steven speilberg, are they related ?
AGAINST AYURVEDA-
-This(the post on foot drop) is the first step in conducting a scientific research, that is preparing such Case reports. More of such case reports will make a case series. Only after going through a process called cross-sectional study, case control study, cohort study, it will be scientifically approved fact.
Even though such case reports are laudable it is better to go to "apothecary"hospitals which are much forward in terms of research when compared to ayurveda.
-I am humiliating your science, but, I only say that patient come to ayurveda just only as a part of a conceptual nostalgia, as a religious ritual.Your posts on foot drop will make more patients to undergo such "sacrifices". Inorder to prevent that only I explained about how a scientific data is approved. Studies don't make any facts scientific.
May be ayurveda might have been the best among the medicinal systems at that time. But using it even after 2000 years is causing hindrance in making modern scientific parameters to be reasearched to commom people. Your studies will only cause such hindrances in the scientific aptitude of common people.
-These tridosa theories are made by your acharyas sitting in a room. Even I can make out theories saying cola cures cancer, gooseberry give long life etc. If I get some idiots as disciples to follow and spread my ideas then life is easy.
-Keeping a secrecy in all matters and saying a particular quality in that acharya,other than that nothing has been ever heard about these people having transferred the knowledge to the other generations in the nearest past, that is truth and reality.
-On courses being conducted by government and about oushadi the govt run manufucaturing unit, the criticism was thus, "If whatever the govt does was right then the biggest tight would have been the gutters in the kerala highways, then next would be brandy", looks like he is not so pleased with the government !
-On asking wether he knows ayurveda, he invited opinions from other ayurvedic doctors who also followed the same "pallavi'' ! Infact I assume these ayurvedic doctors have seldom studied or ever practised or in a better sense tried to apply tridosic principles !
-A crticisism by an ayurvedic doctor with 20 yrs experience "It may be truth that WHO has approved traditional medicines and does not want for research, but it has not banned any further researches in this feild. Tridosas and panchabhootas are ancient theories and should be replaced by modern ones. Ayurveda must be changed to evidence based medicine and toxicology studies conducted wether mercury and such metals can be used ? WHO has approved traditional and indigenous medicines in third world countries on a humanitarian basis where primary health care services are unreachable. Registration are being given to such doctors ''barefoot doctors'', "vaidyas", inorder to prevent exploitation of the society by frauds and quacks.
-Not only in European countries, but also here in India people after completing M.Pharm do take ayurveda seriously and after doing chromatogarphy studies, extract its active contents, and make it into modern medicines. One such discovery is upon Sarpagandha used in ayurveda as a tranquiliser for insanity, where a chemical named reserpine was found out which was more useful in reducing blood pressure than former, such is the case with all drugs ! So then what is the use of all such herbal combinations ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/reserpine
-On modernisation n of ayurveda a critic wrote, " a complete change over is needed is what I feel after 20 years of practise. I think it is a human rights violation to use a 2000 year old medicine upon a patient, when knowledges have been updated regarding the disease of that patient. So why should I use tridosas and pancha bhootas. When patients become aware of the human rights violation then situation will begin to change, for example in Australia an indian parent were detained for allegedly being responsible for the death of their child due to renal failure(acute) after taking homeopathic medications ! Ayurveda I think must be a resource for scientific research works and projects. Making Ayurveda a sort of brand, a commodity, a religion is not the correct way to represent a science. It must lose its individuality and merge with modern science.
"there is a huge ethical issue when someone tries a hearsay medicine on a patient when proven therapies are there in conventional medicine."
-Another critic said ayurveda to be a quackery, he even sited a blog by steven salzberg, I have heard of steven speilberg, are they related ?
"Despite their attempt, they can't really sanitize
Ayurveda - in trying to explain it, they delve into the ridiculous beliefs of
Ayurveda such as their fundamental notion that everyone has three
"doshas", and imbalances in these doshas cause basically all disease.
Imbalances in the first dosha - so says the NCCAM website - can make a person
susceptible to "skin, neurological, and mental diseases" or with a
second dosha, to heart disease and arthritis, and the third causes diabetes,
ulcers, and asthma. All the doshas can be upset by eating certain types of
food.
You have to scroll way, way down on the page - to point 11 - to finally come to what should be point number 1: "Does Ayurveda work?" The answer is, simply, "No." Actually the entire page should be just that question followed by that answer. But here the NIH really lets the wheels come off, and NCCAM reveals its bias: it says "A summary of the scientific evidence is beyond the scope of this Backgrounder." What??? It then makes things worse by stating that "very few rigorous, controlled scientific studies have been carried out on Ayurvedic practices. In India, the government began systematic research in 1969, and the work continues." So they are trying to suggest that this needs more study - a common ploy of pseudoscience practitioners - and even that "research" is going on today in India." - See more at:http://genome.fieldofscience.com/.../ayurveda-and-nih...
You have to scroll way, way down on the page - to point 11 - to finally come to what should be point number 1: "Does Ayurveda work?" The answer is, simply, "No." Actually the entire page should be just that question followed by that answer. But here the NIH really lets the wheels come off, and NCCAM reveals its bias: it says "A summary of the scientific evidence is beyond the scope of this Backgrounder." What??? It then makes things worse by stating that "very few rigorous, controlled scientific studies have been carried out on Ayurvedic practices. In India, the government began systematic research in 1969, and the work continues." So they are trying to suggest that this needs more study - a common ploy of pseudoscience practitioners - and even that "research" is going on today in India." - See more at:http://genome.fieldofscience.com/.../ayurveda-and-nih...
This is Steven Salzberg's blog on genomics,...
GENOME.FIELDOFSCIENCE.COM
-This is called a CHARUKASELA VADA, a hypothesis made on sitting in chair, to explain existing phenomena in non existential realms so that you can't measure them, or find any faults !
-If you think your tridosas and pancha bhootas are complete then why do you study modern anatomy, physiology, hutchinsons and davidsons ? Why do you take blood reports /
-A comic element , interpretation of how brain tumor is formed according to some giri-this is funny...
"apana vitiates prana, udana, samana and also kapha, pitta and create rakta vitiation. the increased dosas upon the urge of vyana reach the covering layers of brain and cause tumor."
-Modern medicine has described the physiology of pain and we can study all changes happening in our body when heated medicated oil such as sahacharadi is poured on the body, so as to know how it acts.Shouldn't that be our approach ? Why should we cling to vata-pitta-kapha !
I remain flummoxed. How do physicians
and health care...
SCIENCEBASEDMEDICINE.ORG
FOR AYURVEDA.....
-ayurveda is not formed out of a penence by some sages over himalayas or by brahmas, it has been formulated after years of reasearches by trial and error, inference and observation. It is not correct to criticize such a system in a humiliating fashion !
TATRA SIDDHANTO NAAMA YAT SASTRAKAYAI
BAHUVIDHAM PAREEKSHYA HETUBHI SADHAYITVA
it is described as such in ancient texts as of how science is formed. There is no need to prove our hypothesis through modern methodologies, even WHO does not wants so !
-May be the ayurveda is a car of 1964, but your post modern car is causing all the troubles ! remember walking cannot be replaced by driving, walking is in itself a medicine, and one of the prime reasons for obesity is driving !
-cant repalce walking with a car and the vice versa, in the same way you cannot replace ayurveda with modern medicine !
these theories are not made by acharyas sitting inside a room. Susrutha says even though they may say fire is cool , you must learn to trust your instincts ! To become an acharya you must be devoid of rajas and tamas, passion and ignorance respectively, so I dont understand the logic behind finding fault in the intentions of a person who is aware of his own self, like a buddha over the commercial intentions of modern pharmaceutical companies !
-blatantly supporting modern methods and blindly finding fault in ayurveda is some sort of intellectual colonisation
-World health organisation have recognised the values of
traditional an indegenous medicines and have clearly said in the benchmarks for
training for ayurvedic practitioners that alobg with modern knowledge, the
knowledges of ayurveda should be respected and analysed using modern research
methodology..
My view is also the same, the medicines and science in ayurveda must be
gradually absorbed to conventional system of medicine( if found genuine) .. But
u cant expect a single man or single group to do cross sectional studies and
cohort studies.. It require multidimensional approach with support frm
biostatistians, modern doctors, ultra modern investigative techniques and most
importantly massive funding..
And currently we dont need permission in a fb group to practise legally what we have studied..
NB: i never mean that we should say we cured gulma or vatavyadhi in this century.Ayurveda faculty should take research methodology more seriously..
And currently we dont need permission in a fb group to practise legally what we have studied..
NB: i never mean that we should say we cured gulma or vatavyadhi in this century.Ayurveda faculty should take research methodology more seriously..
In 2003, a WHO resolution (WHA56.31) on traditional medicine
urged Member States, where appropriate, to...
APPS.WHO.INT
- "sadly most of them who criticize ayurveda dont know ayurveda, tri dosas,
pancha bhootas"
-"The difference in learning Ayurveda between India and
Europe is as follows
1. In India the students who consider them self as unlucky are selected for ayurveda[Entrance
examination]
2. In Europe genius people like professors of molecular genetics, Neuro surgeons, High end physicians, Great philosophers are studying ayurveda seriously.
Any science moulds itself according to the people who deals with it."
2. In Europe genius people like professors of molecular genetics, Neuro surgeons, High end physicians, Great philosophers are studying ayurveda seriously.
Any science moulds itself according to the people who deals with it."
AYUCALM.BLOGSPOT.COM|BY DINESH KS
-..
Ayurveda was here for centuries not due to placebo or witchcraft , it was here
due to the efficacy of its drugs.. Why are u going to hide when the ultimate
off the health authorities, WHO , knows the value of traditional medicine..
The problems in our field like lack of researches and toxicity studies are
beyond our scope.. ( though its a fact that we have never shown much interest
in documentation and research methodology
-Dr.B.MHEGDE AND DR.M.S.VALIATHAN TWO MOST PROMINENT MODERN MEDICINE PRACTITIONERS HAVE AUTHENTICATED THE SUPREMACY OF AYURVEDA AS A HOLISTIC MEDICINE, AND THEY HAVE CONDUCTED INDEPENDENT STUDIES.
-If you say the humaniatarian consideration of application of ayurvedic therapies, then all allopathic doctors would be under bars for causing all sorts of hepatic and renal pathologies in persons taking crocin, aceclofenac and steroids.
- The knowledge of traditional medicines, treatments and
practices should be respected, preserved, promoted and communicated widely and
appropriately based on the circumstances in each country;
Ayyadurai's paper is entitled "The Control Systems Engineering Foundation of Traditional Indian Medicine: The Rosetta Stone for Siddha and Ayurveda." "This work uncovers the scientific foundation of traditional systems of Indian medicine: Siddha and Ayurveda, from core principles shared in modern control systems engineering. The discovery provides a much-needed integrative framework to develop a systems medicine that overcomes the reductionism of modern healthcare," he says.
The findings provide a much-needed integrative framework, across east and west, ancient and modern, to develop a systems medicine that overcomes the reductionism of modern healthcare, says Ayyadurai.
His exposition presents the core principles of Siddha and Ayurveda in a cohesive manner and their direct relationship to the nine concepts of controls systems engineering.
Ayyadurai believes that there is a need to take pro-active measures to popularise Ayurveda and Siddha in India.
"Based on the current health habits, Indians are projected to have 300 million diabetic patients over the next 10-20 years. Western medicine was developed for crisis and war, such as if you got shot or wounded, to put the soldier back on the battlefield. It works well for catastrophic situations, but it is absolutely ignorant about prevention and lifestyle," he says.
Governments have a responsibility for the health of their people and should
formulate national policies, regulations and standards, as part of
comprehensive national health systems to ensure appropriate, safe and effective
use of traditional medicine;
Recognizing the progress of many governments to date in integrating traditional medicine into their national health system, we call on those who have not yet done so to take action;
Traditional medicine should be further developed based on research and innovation in line with the “Global Strategy and Plan of Action on Public Health, Innovation and Intellectual Property” adopted at the 61st World Health Assembly in 2008.
Governments, international organisations and other stakeholders should collaborate in implementing the global strategy and plan of action;
Governments should establish systems for the qualification, accreditation or licensing of traditional medicine practitioners. Traditional medicine practitioners should upgrade their knowledge and skills based on national requirements; and
The communication between conventional and traditional medicine providers should be strengthened and appropriate training programmes be established for health professionals, medical students and relevant researchers.
http://www.who.int/.../congress/beijing_declaration/en/
Recognizing the progress of many governments to date in integrating traditional medicine into their national health system, we call on those who have not yet done so to take action;
Traditional medicine should be further developed based on research and innovation in line with the “Global Strategy and Plan of Action on Public Health, Innovation and Intellectual Property” adopted at the 61st World Health Assembly in 2008.
Governments, international organisations and other stakeholders should collaborate in implementing the global strategy and plan of action;
Governments should establish systems for the qualification, accreditation or licensing of traditional medicine practitioners. Traditional medicine practitioners should upgrade their knowledge and skills based on national requirements; and
The communication between conventional and traditional medicine providers should be strengthened and appropriate training programmes be established for health professionals, medical students and relevant researchers.
http://www.who.int/.../congress/beijing_declaration/en/
This page was archived in March 2014. The information on
this page is no longer being updated and may no longer be current.
WHO.INT
-Hearsay
medicine and traditional medicine are two entities
-There is clear definition of traditional medicine and way of
teaching of traditional medicine as said by WHO.. They say to analyse the
knowledges in ayurveda and to absorb it into conventional knowledge..
-"Our ancient yogis and sages were not just medical
healers, but systems scientists and systems engineers, who saw the body and the
universe as an interconnected engineering system, a system of systems that are
governed by fundamental engineering systems principles," he says.
Ayyadurai's paper is entitled "The Control Systems Engineering Foundation of Traditional Indian Medicine: The Rosetta Stone for Siddha and Ayurveda." "This work uncovers the scientific foundation of traditional systems of Indian medicine: Siddha and Ayurveda, from core principles shared in modern control systems engineering. The discovery provides a much-needed integrative framework to develop a systems medicine that overcomes the reductionism of modern healthcare," he says.
The findings provide a much-needed integrative framework, across east and west, ancient and modern, to develop a systems medicine that overcomes the reductionism of modern healthcare, says Ayyadurai.
His exposition presents the core principles of Siddha and Ayurveda in a cohesive manner and their direct relationship to the nine concepts of controls systems engineering.
Ayyadurai believes that there is a need to take pro-active measures to popularise Ayurveda and Siddha in India.
"Based on the current health habits, Indians are projected to have 300 million diabetic patients over the next 10-20 years. Western medicine was developed for crisis and war, such as if you got shot or wounded, to put the soldier back on the battlefield. It works well for catastrophic situations, but it is absolutely ignorant about prevention and lifestyle," he says.
-, but most people i dealt with feels its high time to
associate modern researches with ayurveda..
-, majority thinks they need a clear modern explanation of
what they practise, but they dont know how.. The views that ayurveda is the
most developed science and it cannot mix with modern etc are views of only a
small minority
.
.
-ayurveda is not a charukasela vada, it is a concept ! one plus one equals two is a concept in mathematics, but after seeing two rivers converge to form one big river, you say one plus one equals big one is stupidity, lack of application
-some diseases do not need medicines, it needs only a belief that he has been treated well
-stephen hawking formualted all his theories on CHARUKASELA, sitting chair ! he did not go out into universe and make all his theories on black hole, string theory, unified universe thoery !
-descriptions of brain tumor are foolishness, fraudulent theories for making people believe, they must be given ig-nobel !
